1. 

What do I think? Not much.

Besides the fact your case is built on 100% conjecture and zero evidence it is inherently self-contradicting. So you are saying 9/11 couldn't be an inside job (ie: da gubmint did it) because the government was too incompetent but you then say it was a false flag (ie: da gubmint did it) by the same incompetent government to pass something as pathetic as the Patriot Act?

Do you not see the inherent contradiction?

Here's is a question for you. Why do something as elaborate as 9/11 just to pass something like the Patriot Act when something far, far less drastic and risky would have done the job? That someone takes advantage of a situation for their own gain doesn't mean they created the situation and you have shown no proof.

As far as your questions, they have all been answers many times before.

1. Yes, the world community of structural engineers and physicists - people who study this stuff for a living - all KNOW the World Trade Center towers collapses due to the results of impact, structural damage and fire. They have written tens of thousands of pages of technical documents explaining why. You should avail yourself of this material.

2. Explosives require explosions. Lots of them to take down a building that size. There were no explosions - puffs of low-velocity dust happening in response to the collapse are not explosions causing the collapse. If you want to run with CD - the dumbest idea ever - then you have to explain: how much explosive of what type was required (hundreds, thousands of tons?), how they got it in the most secure office buildings on earth, how they planted it without a single person noticing, how they got it to survive aircraft impacts and raging fires and how they got it to explode without exploding. You can't do any of that. Your janitor by the way has changed his story more times than I change my socks. No physical evidence for explosives = no explosives. Case closed. Next.

BTW - why demo the towers just to enact the Patriot act? Isn't 4 crashed airliners enough and a whole lot less risky?

3. If some of the hijackers are still alive they wouldn't be hijackers now would they? Think about how dumb that whole idea is. Then ask yourself if these men are really still alive why has no one talked to any of them - in 12 years?!?!

4. 3 of the 4 hijacker/pilots held FAA Commercial Certificates, the 4th had his private license and extensive simulator training. All were grossly over-qualified to crash airplanes - the easiest thing for any pilot to do. None of their maneuvers were particularly extraordinary and in fact showed their lack of experience. An inexperienced Dutch pilot on a simulator hit he Pentagon 3 times out of 3 on a 767 simulator doing the same maneuvers. It ain't hard. You really need to get better sources of information than bad Youtube videos. This stuff is so 2006.

5. Of 19 hijackers, 4 passports were recovered, 2 from Flight 11 and 2 from Flight 93. Not that this matters since they are irrelevant as evidence, any claims they were "planted" is laughable.

6. The FDR for Flight 77 was recovered with all data. The CVR was destroyed. The FDR and CVR for Flight 93 were recovered with usable data.

7. What difference does it make what nations passports the terrorists carried? Were they operating on behalf of the Saudi government? No? Then STFU and quit creating strawmen.

8. Bush and bin Laden's dad were not best buds. Their companies did business together. What exactly does this prove? Bush was an oil man. There is oil in Saudi Arabia.

9. The FBI was never told to stand down. They didn't put enough of the pieces together to make an arrests. That is the subject of a different and worthwhile discussion.

10. Nearly all the calls made from the hijacked aircraft were made on seatback phones which are DESIGNED TO BE USED WHILE FLYING. Only a few calls from 93 were on cell phones and all while the aircraft was below 5,000ft.

I refuted all that nonsense without even looking at my notes. That is how old and tired these arguments are. Even if true they still come nowhere close to presenting a prima facie case. You have nothing that refutes 19 terrorists hijacking 4 planes to crash them into symbols of American economic, military and political power for their own political ends. It was a simple plan requiring few conspirators, not much special skill and very little money. I can make a prima facie case for that, no problem.

I thought I would write and let you know that Agenda 21 is correct. Dr.Funentroll and Mark F are the same person. I had asked a question for which he had the only answer. When he wanted to add to his answer? He came on as Ludwig Van by mistake and added a comment. He might also be other answers that you see on here.

About your question - What I think is that as the years roll by people are getting more curious. When experts in their fields start to say that we were not told the truth about 9/11? It's time for people to take notice.

September 18th's most popular youtube video is about how easily thermite can cut through steel. If the events of 9/11 are a dead issue? Why are so many people watching that video?

Having said all this? I would caution you. Do the research. Never trust someone who puts together a documentary or a 9/11 conspiracy video. If you hear something? Research who is saying it, and what the debunkers have to say. Try to maintain a balance. It can also work the opposite way...

Today's youtube video took on National Geographic and Myth Busters. It made both programs look foolish, because it was so easy to disprove what they had said on their programs. What's disturbing is that one view gets television air time, and the opposite view has to make documentaries and youtube videos.

The one exception was "9/11 Explosive Evidence: Experts Speak Out." PBS had the courage to show that documentary, and it drew more of an audience than they had ever seen. It's also interesting to note that members of the federal government have been wanting to cut funding for PBS. We can all draw our own conclusions...

If you want to know more about 9/11 and the Iraq War, read the book 'Extreme Prejudice' by former CIA asset Susan Lindauer.

I personally believe our government allowed it to proceed.

What's suspicious is that the FBI (Federal Bureau of Investigation) never mentioned the September 11 catastrophe on Osama Bin Laden's Most Wanted Poster.

Like you said Martin it is highly unlikely that a rag-tag team of religious nut jobs pulled off 9/11. It is quite apparent that they had help.

George Bush and Osama Bin Laden were business partners (the company was called Arbusto Oil) and George Bush was a CIA man. That puts the CIA in the picture.

It seems like the government allowed 9/11 to happen so as to wage a lucrative war in the Middle East. They have oil wells to show for the hard work!

My thoughts are this is why I don't really deal with 9/11 truthers anymore. None of this passes the "so what" test. It is a complete waste of time playing whack-a-mole to truther logic.

There is just too much evidence now that proves 9/11 was NOT an inside job:

*ALL the wreckage from the WTC was all collected and carefully examined before those pieces not pertinent to the investigation were sold for scrap. Critical pieces are still in storage at JFK while quite a lot of it is on public display in many places right here in the U.S.

*The airlines and their insurers all admit it was their aircraft that were hijacked. ROLLS ROYCE have never said that the engines recovered were not the type of engine used on the hijacked planes and no one has ever produced such a statement.

*None of the hijackers are still alive. If they were why has no one bothered to interview any of them in the last 12 years.

*Massive amounts of aircraft debris was found at the pentagon site, as well as the DNA from all the passengers and crew and many of their personal effects and of course the Flight Data Recorder from the plane. http://therightbloggerbastard.blogspot.c...

*No where does the "the official story" ever claim that jet fuel melted steel.

*No evidence for alleged pools of molten steel has ever been produced nor can anyone explain what it would mean if it did exist.

*Some first responders heard things they described as "like explosions". None however reported BOMBS. There is a difference.

*WTC leaseholder Larry Silverstein admitted on national TV he asked the FDNY to pull rescuers out of harms way around the badly damaged and in danger of collapse 7 World Trade Center to save lives. He has never deviated from that story. Any other interpretation is utterly moronic. The FDNY is not in the building demolition business.

*During the collapses of the Twin Towers floors became detached from the inner and outer cores, which were incapable of standing on their own, explaining why they remained standing only for moments before collapse.

*No evidence has ever been produced showing smoke coming from the basement seconds before the planes hit.

*Only one person is on record as claiming he heard explosions in the basement before a plane hit but he changes his story more than most people change their underwear. People were injured in the basement due to the blasts from the plane impacts travelling down elevator shafts.

*Pictures taken weeks after the towers fell show steel girders with diagonal cuts in the them - cuts made by workers using Thermal Lances to clear debris.

*Designers of the WTC have never claimed they were built to withstand MULTIPLE impacts from aircraft. They were not even DESIGNED to survive one. Primitive theoretical models done in 1964 suggested they should survive one impact but the model tested a scenario with 5 to 7 times less impact energy than experienced on 9/11 and did not examine the effect of fire.

*Nowhere in the "official version" does it state the plane that hit the pentagon 'vaporized'. The Pentagon was not lightly damaged but heavily damaged with a repair bill of $500 million.

*No hijacker passports were found in the rubble at the WTC. 4 hijacker passports were recovered, 2 in Shanksville and 2 in NYC that had been ejected from the planes at impact along with hundreds of other artifacts and personal effects. Small, light personal items routinely survive aircraft crashes. As evidence the passports were useless so there was no reason to plant it.

* Of 85 video's taken into evidence the only security camera footage taken at or around the Pentagon that showed the impact of Flight 77 was released in 2006 after being presented by the prosecution in the Moussawi trial. Some of the other tapes did not even come from Washington DC. One for example was from a Kinko's in Florida.

*Colonel George Nelson (USAF ret.) is a crackpot who is not taken seriously by anyone outside the tiny 9/11 truther community and had no access to the crash site or evidence at the Pentagon and thus is in no position to speak on what happened there. In 2006 he stated there was enough evidence of an inside job to present to a Grand Jury. So why hasn't he? What is he waiting for? http://www.politicalforum.com/9-11/29401...

The factual data is surprisingly hard to find, but it's there. You really cannot trust anything you read in a forum or on wikipedia, it needs to come from a reputable source-

Jet-A1 aviation fuel, a *type* of Kerosene (Kerosene, or Kerosine, is a family, not a single chemical), burns at 2000 degrees Celsius.

Carbon steel will liquefy and flow at approximately 1400 degrees Celsius, and will be severely weakened well below that temperature.

I think a lot of the misconception comes from (possibly uneducated) american readers seeing '2000 degrees' and mistakenly thinking this means '2000 F' - about 1000 C - whereas of course it actually means '2000 degrees C'.

Jet-A1/JP8 (same thing) properties:

http://aviationsafetyadvisorygroup.org/p...

http://webserver.dmt.upm.es/~isidoro/dat...

http://papers.sae.org/2012-01-1199/

Shell Aviation if you want to ask them in person:

mailto:aviation-technology@shell.com

767's carry 90,000 litres of Jet-A1:

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/767fami...

Carbon steel:

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/meltin...

http://www.suppliersonline.com/research/...

28 Year CIA Veteran Says 9/11 an Inside job

by Bill Christison

August 14, 2006

http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Aug06/Chri...

Please make some time to read this article:

"The following is a transcript of a recording distributed in 1967 by Myron C. Fagan. He had hoped that if enough Americans had heard (or read) this summary, the Illuminati's plan to destroy America would have been aborted."

http://educate-yourself.org/nwo/illumina...

My view on all this is very crisp and clear cut. Some extreme Islamic Terrorists hijacked several aircraft and flew them into the twin towers. 3,000 people died. End of story.

This is what I saw as it happened on the TV in the UK. I don't subscribe to conspiracy theories.

It's been over 10 years since the tragic events of 9/11 and to this day there is still heated debate as to who did and why.

I thought i would throw in my two cents worth, people are welcome to add thier comments.

Some people seem to think it was an inside job. I don't believe that to be the case. The term inside job implies the US government was responsible for it, and let's face it George W Bush couldn't organise a childrens party let alone one of the most sophisticated terror attacks in modern history.

However i do believe it was a false flag. A false flag being when a governemnt directly or in this case indirectly allows its country to be attacked so it can bring in powers to controll the public. You think the government hasn't used 9/11 to thier advantage, just think about the two decade long wars, the Patriot Act which allows the government to legally invade the privacy of its citizens, peoiple being treated like criminals at the airport as though they are potential terrorists and so on.

So it is fair to say the Government gained a lot from 9/11.

Now for some questions that need to be asked.

Do people really believe that fires from the floors where the planes hit really took down both buildings? If they were brought down by fire they would be the only two buildings in recorded history to be brought down by fire. Take away the 2 planes hitting the towers what could be used to take down to of the most well built, well designed buildings ever made, explosives. In footage explosions can be see coming from the sides as the building collapses. Also reports and footage show there was an explosion at the bottom before the building collapsed. The janitor even said he heard a loud explosion coming from the basement, yet noone from the 9/11 commission wanted to speak to him!

Did a bunch of rag tag terrorists commit one of the most sophisticated terror attacks in history? As it turns a lot of the people from the famous montage of photographs put together of all the highjackers are still alive!! How can you be a dead highjacker when your still on this earth?? People who saw themselves in the montage had to call in and say that they weren't the highjackers.

Also we are to believe that these highjackers had the knowhow and expertise to crash the planes into the WTC buildings when it takes airline pilots hundreds if not thousands of hours of practice in a flight simulatorf before they even allowed to fly an airliner with passengers onboard, buy we are made to believe these people went to some small town flying school and got the know how to fly 747's??? Who comes up with this stuff. And what about the flight manouver of the supposed airliner that crashed into the Pentagon, pilots have gone on record sayig it would be extelemly hard to pull off. And here's the clincher, the government said an airliner crashed into the Pentagon, when it is very clear that 1) an airliner didn't crash into the Pentagon lest there be a huge amount of debri on the ground scattered for miles, and 2) the whole wasn't big enough to fit an airliner!!

Also the governement would have everyone believe that one of the highjackers passports was found on the ground of the WTC buildings, that makes no sense no matter how you look at it.

The flight boxes were never found. Or so they tell us. Even though in nearly every airline crash the flight box has always been recorded. Its bright oranage and is for all purposes indestructable how can they not have been found?

Also many of the highjackers nationality was Saudi Arabian , yet no US soldiers ever went there and declared war on them even though thats where Osama Bin Laden is from. Could it be they didn't want to upset the nation that is the world's largest producer of oil?

And is it just me or is it just a great big coincidence that George W Bush snr is best friend's with the father of Osama Bin Laden?

Also why is the FBI had tabs on the people responsible for committing the attacks and could have arrested them and maybe even stopped the attacks all together yet they were asked to stand down, why??

The calls from the airlines. Studies have shown that calls from that high up in the air could simply not have been made. Plus one of the callers tells him mother that it is him, and uses his first and last name. When talking to your mom when would you ever use your full name? That's just too weird.

By the way the victims of 9/11 weren't just those in America, but also in Afghanistan and Iraq where thousands have died as a direct result of 9/11.

Could it be that maybe just maybe the Government lied not just to the poeple of America but to the whole world as to what really happened.

Even if muslim extremists did do the attacks does that justify going into soverien nations and attacking them? Does it justify taking the gloves of so to speak.

What does everyone else think.

Thanks Mr Martin. I read through all. To be honest, the subject and contents were somewhat similar to what I too know from write ups and other literature. I must say everything written by you is possible and it's sad if proven to be true in later years. Sad, very sad.

Hmn. You do a lot of thinking, don't you?

Ever tried to sort out current puzzles?

Osama admitted to it, so thats all I think.